Bhopping - overall ideas to improve, unsure how feasible

[uwunicorn]

Hi. Not sure what the cs2 source codes looks and what is/isn't possible. But these are my general ideas around how the bhopping feels, what it could do better, and what it needs - as someone who was (is) a nerd when it comes to movement in source games.

Penalty for failing 1 hop
The penalty for failing 1 hop seems high. The penalty is obviously required, you shouldn't keep all of your speed unless you're mostly perfect, but if you mess up even slighty at say 500-600 velo (feels) you just lose it all.
From my (limited) understanding of your current plugin, it seems that the perfect bhop ('perf') window is the main thing that is being improved. That is, you have a higher margin of error between a perf and a fail than default CS movement.
If it were possible, to calculate the missed tick(s) between the first ground tick and the next jump input, and apply the movement reduction as a by-product of the two, this may feel more natural and less punishing. This could result in the perf window being lowered entirely, as the penalty for missing a perf would be reduced.

This would result in a more natural feel, opposed to now where it feels a bit 'all or nothing'.

Not sure if that is the best way to combat the problem or if that is possible. It could just be that movement penalty when you land can be reduced so that you lose less velocity when landing entirely, but this may result in 'icy' movement

Landing penalty
I mean penalty broadly. The stamina loss when you land results in the next hop being a lot 'lower'. That is, if you bhop after jumping off of a higher place, your next jump height is significantly reduced. Not sure how to fix this, as all the default CS2 stamina CVARs have been adjusted as required. But if all jump heights were consistent, this would result in a much better feel when playing.

Bullet punch penalty.
The penalty for being shot is very high. You lose almost all of your speed taking 1 bullet. If this could be removed entirely, this would make overall movement, and specifically rebelling, feel much nicer. Obviously, this would result in rebelling being a lot easier, but thats just skill gap. dud cts will always be duds.

Add your own
If anyone has any further inputs or things to mention regarding this, please reply. Thanks

[suntzu]

+1 - the bhopping system has dramatically improved but further titration can only improve the player experience. Losing the majority of your speed at once can be quite frustrating during rebel attempts or map games.

[ZoNiCaL]

Hi unicorn, I wrote the bhop plugin (which was adapted further by @c ), so I'll provide my input. This is how the plugin currently works:

• Players are tracked by how many ticks they spend on the ground after each jump, and this determines the bonus.
• Players are given a speed bonus if they jump within 3 ticks (Cam might've changed the values, so I'll use the values I remember).
• If a player is above 350 velocity, this window becomes 2 ticks.
• The maximum bonus speed is 2x base velocity (~500/ups - I have asked Cam to raise this to 3x base velocity).
• If a player doesn't land a jump within the tick window but within less than five ticks, they receive a small penalty. If a player doesn't land a jump in 5 ticks or more, the bonus speed is reset to zero.

There is a phenomenon in CS2 where players can land a "zero-tick" bhop, which is most likely what you're experiencing with the sudden loss in velocity. A zero-tick jump doesn't register with the plugin's detection method (the plugin tracks ground state, as tracking by inputs wouldn't allow for scrollwheel bhopping), which causes speed to be reset. This might be due to CS2's subtick movement, which we can't remove at the moment with our current plugin framework (there might be a pre-existing plugin that I'm not aware of yet, but I'm not 100% sure). I've tried a few methods to get around this zero-tick bhop, but I have found no solutions as of right now. I will keep looking into it over the next few weeks.

I haven't accounted for bullet punch, so I'll see if there is a way to prevent that in code, and I'll pass it along to Cam.

Thanks for the feedback! Let me know if you have any further questions.

[ford]

i blame @zonical

[ford]

just kidding i lvoe you zonical x

[ZoNiCaL]

Hi @uwunicorn , I found a de-subtick plugin and modified it to work on the server. I've also asked @c to raise the maximum speed bonus, so it should grant more additional velocity. Let me know how this feels!

[C]

Would like feedback on how it feels now before closing this

[ZONE-X]

@C

it feels better and is still challenging, some inconsistences with it tho could be hit points. i feel penalty wise on speed reduction could be adjusted so it not such an instant loss of momentum.

there are some occasions of different surfaces bring more difficult than others to bhop on.

[uwunicorn]

It feels a lot better. Its still challenging but at some points it almost feels a bit strong. Extra tuning will come with time as people get more used to the new bhopping. I would love for the other 2 issues to be assessed for feasability / resolution before the topic is closed @c . But that being said I appreciate all the time and effort you guys are putting in.